Rhythm is Rhythm: An Interview with Percussionist Scott Horey

March 17, 2015

UnknownDr. Scotty Horey (B.A., M.M.A., D.M.A.) is a Twin Cities  percussionist, drummer, who has performed nationally and in Central and South America as a solo percussion artist. He currently teaches and lectures at the UofM, Morris, is Principal Percussionist of the Mankato Symphony Orchestra, and the drummer for RisingSide, a Minneapolis progressive rock band. Horey will be performing at Studio Z on Saturday March 21, accompanied by Bethany Gonella flute; Trent Baarspul, guitar; Ted Godbout, keyboards; Karen Kozak, electric fiddle; Douglas Brown, bass; and Charlie Engen, drums. What follows is a slightly edited version of a brief interview we conducted over lunch one afternoon.

You are a solo percussionist. Most people would think in terms of a drum kit, but you do more. Please explain.

I think of myself as a solo percussion artist, so I play a lot of drum kit and marimba. A marimba is a pitched percussion instrument, like a xylophone, but its bigger. It’s pianistic and I find that with those two instruments I can express myself.

You have a show coming up.

The show is called Signs of New Vitality. I have some original compositions and some other pieces featuring some of my colleagues collaborating with me. It’s Saturday March 21st at Studio Z (Ed Note: 275 East Fourth Street, Suite 200, Lowertown Saint Paul). You can see Jazz at Studio Z (Ed Note: The Dave Hagedorn Quintet) at 7pm and then my show at 10pm. You can get discounted tickets to go to both shows.

What kind of music will you be presenting?

Well, it’s my music, original pieces or pieces I choose by other composers. I describe it as a mix between, contemporary classic, progressive rock, and jazz fusion music.

What do those types of music have in common?

A lot of people ask me that. Hopefully it gets cleared up after attending one of my concerts. As a percussionist you always play a variety of styles of music. Over the yrs you learn how to combine. For me those styles completely express myself. My compositions take components of each style. I love the dynamic and rhythmic approach of jazz, and the forms of the tunes. Progressive Rock has a little more aggressive edge to it, with a drier and more aggressive drum sound, and maybe some simpler harmonies. Classical music has more elaborate pre-written parts as well as some counterpoint. I have a classical flautist playing on the project. I’ll also perform some solo marimba pieces that fit in the musical.

One style of marimba

One style of marimba

Do you compose on marimba?

I try to sit down at the piano. I play at a very basic level, which forces me to play simple harmonies, but most of it comes from rhythms, which I get from the drums – rhythmic ideas and odd time signatures. Then I like to find harmonies on the piano. And then the flute of course is one of my favorite instruments. I can usually hear flute playing in my head.

How does it work to express yourself in solo performances?

I do consider myself somewhat of an individualist. I feel like a very reflective person, and enjoy solitude. I enjoy spending time with myself, whether on my yoga and meditation practice, which is part of my music practice, or just the simple act of enjoying the sound of my instrument late at night by myself. That informs my inspiration. It’s kind of my personality type that transmits when I’m on stage. I love being on stage by myself. I can tell people my story. I think that sends a lot of emotional power. It makes it even more exciting when I collaborate with other musicians, which is part of this show.

You’ve done some shows in South America. What is it about those shows that, though you may not be able to speak to an audience vocally, you can communicate with your music?

That’s one of the reasons I play instrumental music. I love instrumental music and I want to say, with Latin America in particular that I love the culture and I feel at home in Latin Amrican culture. They really value emotional expression and are warm and love music. Love watching a new performer and have a high degree of appreciation for it. I think because my music is really sentimental, very open hearted, and there’s a lot of grooves and rhythms to it, it works very nicely and the LA audiences enjoy my performance.

Even though you aren’t necessarily playing Latin American rhythms.

Right. I have a lot to learn about that. Rhythm is rhythm is rhythm, whether you’re in India, the United States, or South America.

Horey on Marimba

You can find out more about Scotty Horey at: http://www.scottyhorey.com

For more information about the show, go to: http://www.studiozstpaul.com/horey-032115.html

Strength and Independence: a 1986 Interview with Lesley Gore

February 28, 2015
A young pop star

A young pop star

Pop singer Lesley Gore passed away on February 16, 2015. She was sixteen when she reached number one in the charts with It’s My Party, which was followed by a number of other top 40 hits, including You Don’t Own Me, which reached number two on the charts, just behind the Beatles’ I Want To Hold Your Hand. Later in life she received an Academy Award nomination for co-writing Out Here On My Own for the film Fame. She last performed in the Twin Cities at the Dakota in 2010.

About twenty-eight or twenty-nine years ago she made a memorable appearance in the Twin Cities at a somewhat unusual venue. Donaldson’s, a long-gone department store, was opening up a beachwear department in their location at Southdale Mall. To celebrate and publicize the event they brought in Gore to perform in one of the mall’s inside courtyards.

Though at the time it had been about twenty years since Gore had broken the Top 40, Donaldson’s had made a good move in bringing her in, as the place was packed. A large portion of the audience were women who had come of age with Gore’s hits, many of whom had daughters with them as well. She was wildly received.

The grown-up Ms Gore

The grown-up Ms Gore

Afterwards, fans lined up to get her autographs on 45s, LP covers, and pictures. For about 45 minutes, she graciously welcomed them and signed her name. Finally, she was able to take a few minutes to talk with me. What follows is a lightly edited version of the interview.

How did you get your start?

I made some demo tapes which Quincy Jones heard, and Irving Green, president of Mercury at the time, asked Quincy to record some sides with me and one of those sides was It’s My Party.

How did you like working with Quincy?

Very much. Basically we had our first hits together and he really taught me a lot. He’s a fabulous producer and I’m happy to have had the opportunity to work with him.

How did you go about choosing songs?

The Hits

The Hits

We listened to songs. I had first pick as to what I wanted to record, and occasionally Quincy had something that he felt strongly about. It would be more of a negotiating thing. When we heard It’s My Party we both knew we wanted to play that.

Did you get any sense that 20 yrs after recording it, little girls would be singing it?

No, as I said before, if we’d known it was going to last 23 years, we would have taken care of the trumpet clinkers at the end. You know, there are some bad mistakes on that record, but the spirit was there. No, I didn’t know it would last for 20 years

What is it about that song that appeals? I noticed lots of little girls singing and dancing to that one. I asked a couple of them and they said, “That’s my favorite song.”

I think at that time, and it may apply to young girls today, most of the songs were about girls and guys and a girl wanting a particular guy. There was no room for a girl to be independent and say what was really on her mind. The strength and independence of It’s My Party is something that I know I enjoyed singing for that reason. At sixteen I related to that song very strongly for that reason, because a lot of things did go wrong and it gave me an opportunity to sing about those things.

Strength and Independence comes out in You Don’t Own Me. I saw older women singing along to that.

Vehemently singing along.

As a song, it was stronger in its declaration of independence. How did you come to record it?

An anthem of independence

An anthem of independence

That was written for me by two guys from Philadelphia who literally kidnapped me at a resort in the Catskills and threw me into a cabana near the pool and played me the song. I said “This song is great!” I told them “You’ve gotta be in New York on Monday and play this for Quincy” and that was that.

I know it’s been a long day for you. Thanks for taking the time to talk.

You’re welcome, it’s been my pleasure.


Note: Rocker Joan Jett recorded You Don’t Own Me for her debut album as a solo artist in 1981. In 2012, the song was used in a PSA with commentary from Gore, to encourage women to vote. On a lighter note, Bette Midler, Diane Keaton, and Goldie Hawn sing it in the closing sequence of the 1996 movie, The First Wives Club, as seen below.



More Than Just The Drummer in the Band: An Interview with Chip White

February 23, 2015

Chip-White-300x246On one hand drummer Alan “Chip” White is the epitome of a sideman, performing and recording with dozens of artists, yet he is a composer whose songs are more than vehicles for his drumming, he writes lyrics, and he has published a book of poems about jazz musicians whom he admires. White has performed and/or recorded with a wide variety of artists, from Chet Baker, Claudio Roditi, and Jimmy McGriff, to Savion Glover, Irene Reid, Tom Waits, Etta Jones and Houston Person, who he’s been with since the early 90s. He’s also released five albums as a leader since 1994, with artists such as Robin Eubanks, Geri Allen, Randy Brecker, Wycliffe Gordon, and Renee Rosnes playing his original tunes.

His latest CD, Family Dedications and More, is another album of strong, melodic compositions coupled with a CD of poetry. White has written each song in honor of a musician or family member, and then uses the song as a background for the short poem he’s written for that person.

I first met Chip when he appeared with Houston Person at the Dakota in Minneapolis a few years ago. Since then he’s sent me copies of the albums in his Dedication series, featuring songs and poetry. Recently, I met him on The Jazz Cruise, where he appears each year with tenor sax player Houston Person. We sat down for a few minutes in one of the ship’s bars as he talked about his background, meeting Houston Person, his poetry, and his music.

How long have you been drumming?

Well I got started when I was a kid. I was born in Manhattan (1946), uptown in Harlem, and my parents moved to Peekskill when I was small. My father was a marching band drummer. He worked in a hospital but was very much into rudiments. His brother, my uncle, was one of the best snare drum champions in New York. As a kid I started following them, and when I was nine years old, my dad asked “Do you wanna play with us? If you do you have to practice an hour every day. I’ll be your teacher and when I’m your teacher I’m not your father.” I said okay, and it took me about two, two and a half years, where I got to the point I was playing well enough to start playing parades with them. I made $15 a parade, and we were doing three or four a weekend, and the next thing I had a bank account, and I was eleven years old. I said this is a good start.

How did you get into jazz?

I wasn’t into jazz yet. I’d heard some Miles, and I heard a little Coltrane and thought wow. I didn’t not like it, or like it, it was just different. I was into R&B. I came up with Little Richard, James Brown and Motown. I loved that, but the more I listened to jazz, the more I got deeper and deeper into it. The other music was nice but just seemed to stay there. This kind of grew.

An early discovery in Chip White's jazz education

An early discovery in Chip White’s jazz education

I had a great music teacher in high school. We had a big band and he turned me on to Clifford Brown. I said “How come I never heard of Clifford Brown?” and he told me he died in a car accident. Then he gave me a copy of Monk’s Dream, so I started getting into Monk, I was a senior in high school and he took us to hear the Basie Band at the World’s Fair in 1964. That was the band with Frank Wess, Frank Foster and Thad Jones. Later I played with Benny Powell, and Frank Wess, and I studied composition with Frank Foster, which was one of the things that helped me.

Then we had a band in high school under the direction of our music teacher, and we had to join the union, which was funny cause we were 15. We started playing all these union places and the union man came around. He said, “You guys sound good but you have to be in the union,” so we joined, which was even better for us. I was playing with my music teacher and his father, and then started getting calls from the union guy.

Did you study jazz drumming in particular?

It’s a completely different style of drumming than parade drumming. I was good at parade drumming, and almost didn’t want to give it up but realized if I wanted to play jazz I needed to study. After my father taught me all he could, there was a local guy who was a real good jazz drummer. He was an excellent teacher and I studied with him for a number of years.

Then I went to Ithaca College for a year and realized I didn’t want to be a classical musician. It was good, though because I had to study piano. Then somebody told me about the Berklee School of Music, where I studied with Alan Dawson. In the meantime I had heard Coltrane with Elvin and McCoy for the first time when I was a senior in high school. At that time I was really getting into it. I was fortunate to hear Miles and Monk, and Bill Evans. The good thing about living in New York is you don’t have an excuse if you don’t know what’s happening.

When did you start playing with Houston? How did that come about?

Kim & Marion. Working with them proved provident.

Kim & Marion. Working with them proved provident.

I met Houston somewhere in the early 90s. I had a rehearsal studio at the time. The lady I was with was a choreographer and we did a musical together. I wrote all the music and the libretto. We put in on in the East Village for about a week, but didn’t have the 250 grand to go off, off, off (Broadway). After working for a year on this show, directing the band and everything I thought, “Man, I’d like to be a sideman.” A friend of mine, Cecile Brooks, said, “Houston’s looking for a drummer.” It just so happens the next day some friends of mine, singers Kim Kalesti and Marian Cowings were working with Bill Charlap who wasn’t well known at that time. We did some school concerts together and Houston was on those concerts. So I said, I got your address yesterday and here we are on this gig, and he said, “Okay, well I’ll call you sometime.”

Really, about a week later he called me. His drummer got sick at the last minute. I had just gone up to visit my mom. They always say if you want a gig, leave town (laughs). I had gone to visit my mom and we spent the evening having dinner. The next morning I got the call, so it was only an hour (to NYC) so I got in the car and that’s how I met Houston and Etta Jones. Houston was playing brunches at the Blue Note, so that was the first thing I did. That was about 92 or 93. I started playing with them, and Etta Liked my playing and Houston too, so I joined the band.

Here’s a video of Chip with Houston Person back in 1993


Tell us about this series of albums you’ve released – the Dedication Series.

Chip's book, available as ann e-book or from Chip's website

Chip’s book, available as ann e-book or from Chip’s website

The way I got the idea was initially, I started writing lyrics to my own original music. One night I heard some words to my music. I went to the piano and put some words to it. They seemed to fit, so I knew a few good singers and they came over and liked it.  So I started writing the lyrics to my own music. Then I went to Japan for a gig at a private club for two months and started working on a book. I wrote a poem for Duke Ellington, and then Miles, and Bird and Trane. It took me about four or five years, but I’ve put this book together with poems for all these musicians. (Takes out book – I’m Just The Drummer in the Band)

Once I got the book, I was getting ready to do some recordings. I had an album in ’94 called Harlem Sunset, which was critic’s choice in Billboard when it came out. I was trying labels but nothing worked, so I saved up a little money to record. I thought, I have a composition for Duke, and I have a composition for Trane, why don’t I do series of compositions for them on one disc, and the poetry under the music on another. No one is doing that, I far as I know. So that’s when I came up with the first one, Double Dedication. I used an all-star band, Kenny Barron, Ray Drummond, Randy Brecker, Steve Wilson. I found out that if you have good music and have great musicians, you’re gonna have a good result.

Then I did More Dedications with Mulgrew (Miller). Unfortunately he passed away after that. I had Steve Nelson, who was on my first, Duane Eubanks. We did compositions for Eric Dolphy, Booker Little, Bobby Hutcherson, Clifford Brown, also Milt Jackson. Milt Jackson was on one of the jazz Cruises, and I gave him his poem. About a month later he shows up at our gig – just a little club in New Jersey. I thought there’s a guy that looks like Milt Jackson, and it was him! He said, “I really like that poem,” and I told him it’s part of a book, so he said, “I’d like to buy that book.” So he got one of the first copies of the book and he asked me to sign it for him. I said to myself, “Well, I think I’m headed in the right direction.”

And the latest one, that you just released.

Yeah, I’m really fortunate, that came in at number 5 and now it’s number 4 this week. I hired a very good radio publicity guy. He does the same thing that a record company guy would do. You need that kind of guy.

Who are the tunes dedicated to on this release?

Chip's latest release, Family Dedications and More.

Chip’s latest release, Family Dedications and More.

It starts off with a tune for Houston, Blue Person. Then there’s a tune for myself – CW’s High Hat, and a tune called The Dance Spot. That was one of the pieces in the musical that I did, going way back. Some of the pieces are brand new, and some I’ve had forever waiting for the right circumstance to record them. There’s a tune Jobim and a tune for Elvin, who I heard with Coltrane. The rest are for my brother, Raymond’s Happy Waltz, and my father, and my mother, so it’s kind of historic. I feel fortunate that I’ve been able to do this stuff, and I just spend as much time as I’m able at the piano and at the vibraphone.

Do you have more to write?

Well, the book is finished. My wife is an editor, and she edited it for me.

Have you done compositions for every poem in the book?

No, because there’s a hundred pieces. I do have more than 50 compositions that I’ve recorded on my CDs. I figure if I don’t play my own music, who else will. When people hear the tunes, they’re really hearing me.

You mentioned that you’re putting together your own group to perform.

I’ve been working around New York. I was fortunate to work at Dizzy’s a couple of years ago. I had five nights opposite Bobby Hutcherson, so I wrote a piece for Bobby. I might do something for Benny, I’m just kind of open, and trying to survive. I’m a New Yorker who is from New York. There are a lot people who come to New York, but there are a lot of musicians who came from New York – Max Roach, Stan Getz, Monk was from NY too. Benny Carter.

Well, this has been great. Thank you for taking the time to talk.

Thank you, Larry. I appreciate it.

For more information: www.chipwhite jazz.com

The All Originals Jazz Series

July 31, 2014

Steve Kenny Interview, Part 2: D-I-Y Jazz

Photo by Andrea Canter

Steve Kenny. Photo by Andrea Canter

Since the closing of the Artists’ Quarter at the end of last year, a few of the area’s jazz musicians have taken a do-it-yourself attitude when it comes to performing. Zacc Harris is now in the third year of Jazz at Studio Z, having started the trend of producing a series a couple of years ago. Jazz Central, which is run by musicians, has expanded its offerings to five nights a week. And now Steve Kenny is producing The All Originals Jazz Series. I posted an interview with Steve a few days ago in which he talked about one of his groups – Group 47. This portion of the interview is about his work producing a jazz series at Studio Z every Thursday this summer. Each of the featured artists have played at the Artists’ Quarter with some regularity. Tonight’s perfomance features Dean Magraw’s Red Planet as the fourth of ten performances.

LE: You are involved with many projects these days.

SK: The All Originals Jazz Series, Group 47, Illicit Sextet, What Would Monk Do, and the Steve Kenny Quartet, which is starting to get more gigs. There are 4 bands that I’m actively involved in and have projects in planning. Of the four bands I’m the only common musician – four different units. This is feast or famine. I’m so happy to be in that situation. It took a suspension of disbelief and relentless pursuits to get these bookings. On top of that, the concert series is going on.

LE: How did the All Originals Jazz Series come about?

SK: There are a couple of things. On the one hand in the Twin Cities we have a number of organizations that provide small arts grants, MRAC (The Minnesota Regional Arts Council), for one. From a strict financial side this (series) wouldn’t happen without the legislature appropriating funds and without a wider commitment to the arts. Minnesotans are putting their money where their mouth is, and supporting small-scale arts. Small grants are available that non-professional fundraisers can apply for to fund raise. That’s one thing. Kudos to them.

The second answer goes back to when I first came on scene in mind to late 80s with my band mates (Editor’s Note: the Illicit Sextet). We’d all gotten music degrees or minors at River Falls in Wisconsin. It’s a local college with strong music program. Not as big as the U of M, but definitely in the running. I’ve got a little pride in my alma mater.

LE: So many of you went to school together?

SK: We came out of school and had learned about not just jazz, but composition. It’s a real focus of the school, bringing in internationally renowned composers and exposing people to experimentation. In that fertile ground we (my band mates & I) made the decision to be a composer’s collective, giving us a reason to keep composing music. In those days that was a strange thing for a jazz band locally. There had only been one other band in the Twin Cities that was similar – Natural Life – to me they’re in running for one of the all time greatest jazz bands. I have seen unbelievable videos of that group. They were really good, played originals, but were off the scene in the late 80s. It was in that vacuum that Illicit sextet was formed, the only band playing originals for years and years.

LE: Now there are many.

SK: This jazz series is a celebration of the fact that during the years I was off the scene due to chemical dependency – 15 years – the landscape had changed considerably. Every band was doing originals. The Illicit Sextet is host of the series – we claim our place. We’re so happy that nowadays that the average band almost can’t be a jazz band without a book of originals. To underline how things have changed, in the final week we have the Adam Meckler Orchestra. We have in our midst a big band entirely focused on originals.

LE: What will you do next?

SK: On the horizon, I’m starting a partnership with Black Dog to curate a Saturday night jazz series there.

I’ve already signed up Fat Kids, the Atlantis Quartet, some of the usual bands. We have such an amazing number of established excellent bands in the city that this type of thing is possible. Little by little each group gets more of a following. Which is important, since we don’t have the drawing power of a club – where the club itself has drawing power. So we have to increase the band image of individuals and ensembles to draw sufficient numbers on a Saturday night.

Every Saturday night, there will be some serious jazz happening at the Black Dog. It will be produced in cooperation with my production company and the Black Dog, to step up marketing and compensation.

The All Originals Jazz Series Schedule takes place at 8pm every Thursday evening at Studio Z, East Fourth Street, Suite 200, in Lowertown Saint Paul – 275 . ($10)


July 31: Red Planet

Aug 7: Mississippi

Aug14: Chris Lomheim Trio

Aug 21: Steve Kenny’s Group 47

Aug 28: Atlantis Quartet

Sep 4: Bryan Nichols, Chris Bates, JT Bates

Sep 10: Adam Meckler Orchestra



Steve Kenny’s Group 47

July 28, 2014

Veteran trumpeter/composer Steve Kenny is one busy musician. He’s currently playing in The Illicit Sextet, The Steve Kenny Quartet, What Would Monk Do, and Steve Kenny’s Group 47, the last of which is celebrating the release of an album, Straight to Vinyl, at the Icehouse this evening. Besides Kenny, the group consists of four college aged musicians: Will Kjeer, piano; Thomas Strommen, sax; Adam Tucker, bass; and Alex Burgess, drums. This group of young lions exhibits the creativity and cohesion usually found in groups with much more experience.

Steve Kenny. Photo by Andrea Canter

Steve Kenny. Photo by Andrea Canter

I had a chance to talk with Steve about Group 47 and the All Originals Jazz Series, a ten-week series he is curating at Studio Z every Thursday during the summer. This post will cover Group 47, while our discussion about the Jazz Series will be posted later this week.

LE: You’ve become quite the busy person these days.

SK: That’s true. Maybe it’s a perfect storm or maybe it’s the way I like to operate. I’m thinking ahead to the things that will be happening in Jan and Feb right now. That’s way, when the dates roll around it’s easier to book people, a studio is already booked if I need it. I had it figured out in the 90s and now back to that thinking that way.

LE: Why such an approach?

SK: I like to play some pretty serious music in public at least one a week, and that takes lots of planning. I play trumpet, and for that particular instrument, people don’t call you. It might be different for a rhythm section player. People don’t call trumpet players for modern jazz gigs, so I figured out you have to be very creative. And now, with the club scene getting more challenging, it takes more self-promotion and effort to make sure there’s a show every week or every couple of weeks.

LE: How did Group 47 come about?

Group 47 at the late, lamented Artists' Quarter

Group 47 at the late, lamented Artists’ Quarter

SK: It came out of the fact that for 5 or more years, I had the privilege of playing the early gig at the AQ. The group was known by a variety of names. The way things progressed; it started as a loose, jam session, and as years went by there was a tendency to push away from pure jam to incubating some kind of group. Then we found out the club was going to close.

At that point, it became: let’s see if we can bootstrap something that can exist outside of the club. Right around that time I met Will Kjeer on street. While I was warming up outside, and he walked up and introduced himself, claiming he was a pianist who could play jazz. I started asking what tunes do you know, to find out how successful it would be to bring him up. After talking, I said come on down. He came down, and played great. I asked him if he would come back, and every time he returned he was better. As he got his wherewithal, his true abilities came out – holy crap. After a year, he’s improved so much – it’s crazy. He plays as well as anybody in town and this is a piano town.

LE: How did you find the other players in the band?

SK: When playing free gigs, a lot of established players aren’t going to play. Many did come down, but I was looking to shift to a steady membership for the group. As I approached players who sat in every week for the next 6 months, the membership changed according to whoever was willing to play. It was happenstance. Good ones stayed, what we ended up with was the group. It’s a band that can play on the same bill with any band in town and I’m really proud of it. And they’re monster players, the likes of which people don’t even know yet.

LE: How did the concept of the album originate?

SK: With Will joining we started writing. Six months before club closed we changed the name of the group. Then we booked studio time, played the Dakota, a college concert and other venues. We got enough material in recording sessions for Straight to Vinyl.

Straight to Vinyl happened in bassist Adam Tucker’s studio, where they have a track record of doing vinyl. We decided to record in the round, originally to 2 inch analogue tape and then to vinyl. There is no actual editing, just selecting the order of songs. No editing of beginnings, ends, no pitch correction. Ignoring the CD format because it’s a dead format. Except for radio stations, many devices no longer have CD drives. We made sure that the release is available in every digital format, iTunes, Wav files, CD baby, MP3, etc. Scary digital precision is also available. And of course the vinyl version with nice artwork, real liner notes, all the touch feely things we like about vinyl.

Note: Steve Kenny’s Group 47 will be celebrating the release of Straight to Vinyl at the Icehouse in Minneapolis Monday evening, July 28 at 10pm. Copies of the album will be available for sale.

You can also hear the group as part of the All Originals Jazz Series at Studio Z on Thursday, August 21st at 8pm.

Interview with Paul Bollenback – 10.30.10

June 12, 2012
Paul Bollenback

Ed Note: This interview was first published in Bebopified on November 11, 2010, before I started this blog.  Since Paul is coming back to play at the Artists’ Quarter on June 15 and 16, I thought this would be a good time to re-publish the interview here:

Like every young guitarist of the 60s and 70s, Paul Bollenback was enamored with rock and roll. Then he heard Miles Davis and delved into fusion.

While living in Washington, DC, he was exposed to more traditional jazz, as well as organ jazz, and studied composition and performance. He made his first record with Gary Thomas in 1987 and met Joey DeFrancesco in 1990, establishing a relationship that lasts to this day.

After being named Musician of the Year for the Washington Area in 1997, he moved to New York City, where he now resides.

Paul dropped by KFAI on Saturday morning, October 30. This is a slightly edited version of the on-air discussion we had.

LE: How are you? 
PB: I’m great. It’s great to be here in the Twin Cities.

LE: You’re kind of a regular visitor.
PB: The gentleman who’s responsible for first bringing me here brought me to the studio today. John McCauley was Jack McDuff’s manager, and he’s responsible for first bringing me here. We calculated that I first came here, I think it was 18 years ago last night, to play a show with Jack and Joey DeFrancesco. I was in Joey’s band. It was a two-organ show. I met John and he was kind enough to bring me back to play at the Hotel Luxeford, for those of you who remember when they had jazz in there. I’ve been coming back ever since. I love it here. Great people and wonderful audiences, and there’s some really great musicians playing here. Tonight I’m playing at the Artists’ Quarter with Billy Peterson on bass and Kenny Horst on drums. You’ve got the Peterson family dynasty – it’s great.

LE: Tell us a little bit about how, as a guitar player, you decided to get into jazz.
PB: I was basically a rocker. I really liked Carlos Santana, and at a certain point I was listening to Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, all those early heavy metal groups. I really liked the groove and power and the energy of it. A friend turned me on to the Mahavishnu Orchestra with John McLaughlin. That was a thrill because I’d never really heard anybody play guitar like that. I’d heard all these soulful, really good guitar players, but John was a different scene. That kind of led me to Big Fun, which is an electric Miles Davis record which had John McLaughlin on it, if I’m not mistaken, which led me to Bitches Brew, which kind of at the same time got me into fusion – Return to Forever with Chick Corea, Larry Coryell’s Eleventh House.

At some point in this, my family moved from New York to Washington, DC, and that’s where I really got turned on to more traditional jazz. The first person I met when I got to DC is a great bass player named Edward Howard. Probably the thing he’s most well known for is playing bass with Roy Haynes for about 15 years, through the 80s up into the 90s. We had a friend who had a room full of records, a 10×12 room, three sides of which were covered in vinyl – all kinds. We’d go there and play and hang out and listen to music all day. That was really my first exposure to jazz other than the fusion stuff.

LE: How did that appeal to you as a guitar player who grew up in rock? What was it about jazz that appealed to you?
PB: Well, it intrigued me. When I was in high school, must have been 9th grade, there was a jazz band in the school I went to in Tarrytown, New York. It always amazed me that these young guys would come in, and they’d have music in front of them and play this stuff. I didn’t know what it was. “What is this that they’re doing?” I couldn’t do it. I was playing blues licks and trying to make my way through it. But I think that was one of the things.

Another was that my dad was a huge fan of the big bands. He really liked Benny Goodman in particular. He liked Stan Kenton a lot, and we had Harry James records and Benny Goodman records lying around the house. I’d put them on now and again, just out of curiosity. I’d be listening to one of my Beatles record and see one of these records and think, “What is this thing?” and put it on. I’d hear this “du did-it dee” and think wow, that’s interesting. But, I didn’t really like it when I was nine [laughs]. So it’s been kind of a progression.

LE: And you seem to have spent a lot of time in B-3 organ groups.
PB: Some people plot their path, and for other people it just happens. When I was 18 and living in DC, my friend Ed introduced me to a great piano player and composer named Lawrence Wheatley, who turned out to be a great mentor for me. Once I actually got a place of my own, I lived a couple of blocks from him. I used to go and play with him all the time. He was quite a bit older than I was. But he was one of those guys in DC who had played with everybody when they came through town. I wouldn’t have been surprised if he had played with Charlie Parker. He was of that era.

Anyway, the summer I was 18, he had this regular three-nights-a-week gig. It was an organ gig – organ, saxophone, drums. And he’d say, “Why don’t you come down and play?” Of course, I was thrilled. I wasn’t getting paid, but these guys were top-notch players in DC. So I learned a lot playing with them. And I got my first taste of an organ group. I also really liked that record George Benson had done, Willow Weep for Me. I think it might have been Lonnie Smith on the organ. [LE: It was.]  It’s funny because it was on vinyl and I don’t even remember the cover. But that was the first jazz guitar that I heard and I thought, “That’s what I really like, what is that?” And the organ, too, the way it was in there. Needless to say, a few years later, when I met Joey DeFrancesco and he was looking for a guitar player, it worked out.

LE: As a teacher, you talk about the importance of musicians knowing how to sing the melody. Can you explain that a bit?
PB: There are a couple of things. Certainly, if you can’t sing, and I don’t sing well [coughs], you can still hear. The idea is that you can’t really play a song unless you know the entire song, which includes the melody. I think that educationally, in the 1970s and early 80s, I feel that what was being taught in schools was a lot of harmonic knowledge. Here’s the chord that you’re playing and the scale that you play over it, and that’s how you make it work. But, in actuality, if you take that approach every time, all of your music is going to sound exactly the same. And you really don’t want that.

If you know the melody, you know what the tune is about, and if you know the lyric –  especially if it’s a standard, you’re obliged to know the lyric – you know at least what the song is about. And if there’s a backstory on the song, that’s even better, because it informs how you would play it and what the song means to you when you play it. If you have a choice in what you play, and if you’re a leader you do, then you make your choice based on how you relate to the tune, and if it says something to you then you can actually create something with the audience in terms of the ambience of the tune. If you don’t know the melody and you don’t know the lyric, then there’s no way you can play the tune. So being able to sing it helps to solidify it in your mind.

LE: I’ve heard or read similar statements before, but mostly from older saxophone players, so you’re the first guitarist I’ve heard say that. It certainly makes perfect sense, even if a musician can’t sing.
PB: Absolutely, I’ve got this whole thing that I learned from a guy I studied with in Baltimore when I lived in DC. His name was Asher Zlotnik. When I studied with him, he must have been in his late sixties. He was pretty brilliant in terms of ear training. His whole thing was, if you can’t sing it, you shouldn’t be trying to play it. So he had me working on all these basic things in terms of being able to outline chords, outline harmony, being able to sing bass lines, and it helped my understanding of music as a language, and so I try to teach that to my students.

It takes a while to really have the whole thing come into play. I’ve found that most of the people I work with as a sideman have incredible ears. They have great pitch. The only way to develop that, if you don’t have that naturally, is to work on singing these different things.

LE: So when you hear someone playing something, you can think, “That’s an A-flat and I can play this with an A-flat.”
PB: Yeah, in a general sense.

LE: You’re a pretty busy guy.
PB: Fortunately, yes.

LE: That’s always a good thing for musicians. Is the Tuesday night gig at Smoke [in New York City] a regular thing?
PB: Well, it’s not really my gig. Organ player Mike LeDonne has been doing it for quite a while. He’s got a regular band that he uses, with Pete Bernstein, but Pete, of course, is very busy playing guitar with everyone, including Sonny Rollins, and a lot of time he can’t make it, so Mike will call me to come in. Since it’s about eight short blocks from where I live, I can walk to the gig. And I’ve been doing that a lot lately. That’s been nice. He’s had Vincent Herring playing alto saxophone, and a variety of drummers. McClinty Hunter, Rodney Greene, sometimes Joe Farnsworth will be there. It’s always fun to play with Mike. He’s another great organ player.

Paul Bollenback and Chris McNulty

LE: I’ve been aware of him for a number of years. He put out an album some years back that I believe was recorded live at Smoke. You also do gigs on your own and with Chris McNulty.
PB: Yes, we’ve had a…    Well, I should say, we’re married. I usually don’t put it out there just because, “Oh, it’s his wife,” or “That’s her husband.” We do quite a bit of work together. Chris just got done with a month-long tour of Australia, then went directly to ten days in Russia. I did a portion of the Australian trip with her and then we were doing a trio with Andrei Kardokov, a great piano player, all over the Eastern part of Russia, the Finnish area.

LE: For those folks who travel to New York, or elsewhere, where can they find out about your schedule?
PB: Best thing is to check my website, which just my name, Paul Bollenback, dot com.

LE: And if they can’t find your CDs in the local record shop, they can go there.
PB: Chris and I actually started our own small label. It’s not signing anybody, for all those hungry musicians out there looking for a label. We did it for us because we wanted some control over our product, and to be able to move it in the way we wanted. It’s called Elefant Dreams and you can link to Elefant Dreams Records from my website. You can order both of our CDs through that.

LE: Well, you’re at the Artists Quarter tonight. Starts at nine. Two sets?
PB: Nine and elevenish. The music is not ish, it’s very strong.

LE: It’s with Billy Peterson on bass and Kenny Horst on drums.
PB: We’re having a ball. Lots of interaction. I mean we’re really stretching it out, playing a variety of tunes. Lots of standards. Makes the idea of rehearsing easier. We’re taking different treatments to them, different styles.

LE: And are you doing some of your originals?
PB: We may do some tonight. I brought some with me. Really, as a leader, I don’t plan a set. I know a lot of guys prepare a set list. Joey DeFrancesco never had a set list. We’d never know what he was gonna play – he’d just start playing and you better know the tune.

LE: That’s where that ear training comes in.
PB: That’s right. Gary Bartz was the same way, and Gary Thomas as well. We’d rehearse five or six hard tunes that he had written, and then he would never tell you what he was going to play. He’d just start and you jump on [chuckles]. I like it because it keeps it fresh.

LE: Let’s close off with something from your albumDouble Gemini.
PB: That’s my second album. It came out in 1997. This particular tune, “Open Hand,” was written here in the Twin Cities when I was playing at the Hotel Luxeford, it was probably 1996. I had such a nice time. People were so nice that I just wrote this tune. So this has a relation to your town. It features Joey De Francesco and Jeff “Tain” Watts on drums.

LE: Thank you so very much for stopping by. I understand you’re off to do some recording now.
PB: Yes, something having to do with the Peterson dynasty, but first, breakfast. More coffee.

Lila Ammons: Fulfilling a Musical Heritage

April 22, 2012

Twin Cities vocalist Lila Ammons has a rich musical heritage. Her grandfather was Albert Ammons, the famous boogie woogie piano player, and her uncle was Gene Ammons, whose big, soulful sound on the sax was a mainstay of 50s jazz. Lila studied classical music and performed in operas, recitals and oratorios throughout the United Staes and Europe before turning to jazz and blues. Though she’s lived in the Twin Cities for about fourteen years, she spends much time touring Europe. She and vocalists Vicky Mountain and Dorothy Doring have performed together as Sisters in Song. Recently, Ammons has begun to sing around town with a quintet, and is now getting ready to release a CD. This lightly edited interview took place during my radio show, Rhythm and Grooves, on April 7, 2012.

LE:  You grew up in Chicago and actually started out in classical music.

Lila Ammons: It was very much a big part of my family. My dad was really into oratorio singing and opera and when I was a child. He used to listen to Ezio Pinza and all these Italian tenors.  I used to plug my ears and think how could he stand this, you couldn’t even understand the words. Actually, it was all early training. I think they were trying to steer us into a different direction, because they recognized our musical abilities. The last thing they wanted was for us to follow our uncle and grandfather’s footsteps into the sinful world of jazz and blues.

LE: How long did you take classical training?

LA: Let me see, I got my undergraduate degree at the University of Michigan, Masters at Manhattan School of Music, and then I spent 12 years pursuing big track opera.

LE: How does the classical training help you in singing jazz and blues?

LA: I would say from a technical standpoint, it’s given me longevity, because I know how to take care of my instrument, and that’s very key.

LE: How did you make the decision to go from classical music into other genres?

LA: (Chuckles) It was something that was secretly in the back of my mind. I had started singing R&B in Junior High School, much to my mother’s dismay. She was very unhappy about that. I was a classical pianist and violinist. Did that for 12 years. Studied in Northwestern’s Prepatory School for piano and was in the orchestra for 8 years as a violinist. I then went to college and totally got out of music for the first two years and then I was beckoned back to music. The conservatory there was stressing classical, so I got caught in the stream with the other trout. (hearty laugh)

Of course, my parents were very, very happy about that, but I still wanted to go to California and still wanted to be a studio musician, but they were like, no, no, no, got to New York, we know more people there. So I ended up at a conservatory and got caught up in it, but in the back of my mind I was very curious about this heritage that I had recently discovered. I had started in the background doing some research about my grandfather, and really discovered who he was and then located people like Barney Josephson (Ed note: Owner of Café Society in NYC) and John Hammond – just on a fluke, because I had found a book in an old used bookstore on West Broadway in NY, and I recognized the name from an album my dad had of my grandfather’s.

And from there I started making phone calls and in the back of my mind I was thinking, by age something, this, this, this. If this doesn’t go there, that’s okay because I want to look back into my heritage. And so in a way I had a master plan. I fulfilled the classical thing for my parents. My mother passed away and I felt I could do my own thing at that point.

LE:Tell us about your heritage, in case folks don’t recognize the name Ammons.

Lila's Grandfather, the boogie woogie master.

LA: My grandfather, my dad’s father, was Albert Ammons, who was a pianist, born in 1907. At the early age of 17 he began to became a noted boogie woogie player. He, along with a couple of others, Pete Johnson and Meade Lux Lewis became the Boogie Woogie Trio. They were picked up by John Hammond, the famous impresario. He discovered Billie Holiday and all kinds of people. He brought them to New York City and presented them at Carnegie Hall at the Spirituals to Swing Concert in 1938. The concert had all kinds of luminaries, including these three, and they became wildly successful, and went on to perform at Café Society. That was another very interesting place in musical, and political, and social history. That place was a hotbed of a lot of things. (Ed note: It was the first integrated nightclub in the United States.) My grandfather also had his own group, the Rhythm Kings, and then he went on to do lots of great things.

LE: He was very well known. And then one of his sons was Gene Ammons, one of my favorites. A big toned saxophone player.

Uncle Gene "Jug" Ammons.

LA: One of a kind, one of a kind. In fact, from Chicago, at 17 he was one of the lead tenors for Billy Eckstine, along with Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie. That band was a hotbed of early bebop. It was the early incubator for bebop.

LE: How did you come to be touring Europe so much?

LA: I’m now involved in an international tour with a German pianist who is a specialist in boogie woogie and classic blues. Through a whole bunch of circumstances in 2007, the two of us came together. I put together a concert in celebration of my grandfather in 07, and brought together a lot of incredible early heritage players including Butch Thompson, as a matter of fact. I had this concert in Chicago commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Albert’s birthday, and after hearing me sing a tune, Axel Zwingenberger, the German expert, invited me to join his tours in Europe, so I’ve been doing that for four years now.

LE: The lead-off cut on your upcoming CD is an old Helen Humes hit, one of those songs that was blending the boundaries of jazz and blues at that time.

LA: Absolutely. Bee Baba Lee Ba. Jive Talk (chuckles)

LE: As you went about producing the CD, how did you choose who would be on it?

LA: The producer is Michael Wimberly, he’s a fantastic percussionist, travels around the world, produces documentaries on different instruments. I went to school with him years ago, and we’d wanted to do a project together. He’s worked with a lot of people. I called him up one day and said, Hey I want to do this project, and told him what kind of stuff I wanted. We talked about this for a year and he hand picked people that he knew that he thought would be perfect.

Houston Person

LE:Who’s on the CD?

LA: Well, on tenor sax was Houston Person. I’m just so honored that he was there. He comes from that Gene Ammons/Ben Webster kind of school.

LE: Smooth and big-toned.

LA: Yeah, so that worked out so perfectly. We have James Wideman on piano. He’s worked with Joe Lovano, and Kevin Mahogany and lots of folks. A gentleman named Onaje Allen Gumbs, (also on piano) whose name is maybe not as familiar to people, but he’s played with Buster Williams, Betty Carter, Nat Adderley, Kenny Burrell, Woody Shaw – lots of folks. A Sweet sweet sound. Leon Dorsey has played bass with Dizzy, and Jon Hendricks and lots of folks. Steve Williams was Shirley Horns drummer for 25 years. Another nice sweet sound. Then we have Nioka Workman on cello, that’s Reggie Workman’s daughter. She’s doing all kinds of things with India.Arie and Kanye West. We have Marvin Sewell on guitar. He plays with Cassandra Wilson, David Sanborn, and he’s got his own thing going. And Michael Wimberly does percussion.

LE: You said you had some ideas on the kind of music you wanted to record. What did that involve?

LA: I thought about tunes that I really loved. I have such a broad number of influences, from Joni Mitchell, to Pete Seeger, the Isley Brothers. I was influenced by so many different sounds. So I chose some contemporary tunes – I was really into the Jazz Fusion era – I’ve got Chick Corea’s “Spain,” and a George Duke tune, “Love Reborn,” that Flora Purim did with him, but I’m doing it in a totally different way. Then I’ve got some swing, one of which is my uncle’s tune, “Close Your Eyes.” I did some ballads, “If You Could See Me Now,” and “The Nearness of You,” one of my signature tunes, and “Nature Boy.” And then I’ve got some Brazilian, which I love. It’s in final production, packaging, and all that right now.

LE: It will be released sometime this summer?

LA: Hopefully, hopefully. Fingers crossed. (laughs) Lot of factors are involved.

LE: Who is in your working quintet when you play in the Twin Cities?

LA: Dean Brewington is on sax. He knew my uncle. Dean was my very first friend here. I moved here 14 years ago from NYC. We actually ran into each other in a parking lot. We hit our cars – ran into each other (laughs) At Groth’s music store. (more laughter) So thank you Groth. Then I’ve got Tim Zorne on drums, and a young pianist, Ted Goddbout, a fine young pianist. We have Ben Kelly on bass, who will not be with us tonight, so we’ll have Jim Chenoweth – a lot of people know him.

LE: You mentioned playing in Europe a lot. How do the audiences there react?

LA: As I said, there I’m specializing in early classic blues – Bessie Smith, Georgia White, and Helen Humes…  Europeans still have a love and appreciation for that music that goes beyond belief. They remember that and come up to me, often in tears and recount stories about the first time they heard Albert and during the war when they heard this and that, and where they were when they first heard it and how much they appreciate my being there. I’m so grateful that I’m there to receive this for him! Somehow it’s out there and transmitted to him what he’s done to touch so many people.


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